In this week’s episode, Carl Magruder tells us how he became an “accidental chaplain.” As part of his seminary training, the only field work that he could find was as a hospital chaplain. “All of my cleverness and rhetoric and argumentation was completely worthless at the bedside of a person who was suffering,” he recalls, “and I could take all of that off and leave it in the hospital corridor, and just to go in with nothing in my hands and no agenda and to sit down in the chair like I had no where else in the world to be, and just open myself to the being that was there.”
As a chaplain and as a Friend, Carl encourages us to think deliberately about our death and how we might choose to face it. “I don’t have all the answers and what’s right for the individual is very individual,” he says, “but… we don’t think about it, we don’t talk about it, then we catch a diagnosis and it’s very hard and scary to think about and talk about.”
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Transcript:
Working as a healthcare chaplain — you know, almost all modern healthcare chaplains are interfaith chaplains. It’s actually against the chaplain’s code of ethics to prosthelytize any particular faith, and so my Quaker faith set me up very well for that — just to understand that there’s that of God in every person and to be genuinely curious to meet them where they are.
On Quaker Deathways: Practices Around Death and Dying
I’m Carl Magruder. I use he/him pronouns. I live in San Diego county, and I’m a member of Strawberry Creek Friends Meeting.
So I have found myself an accidental chaplain. I went to seminary, it wasn’t working for me, so I went to do my field ed and the only thing that was open was a hospital chaplaincy residency, and so I went and did that and what I discovered was that all of my cleverness and rhetoric and argumentation was completely worthless at the bedside of a person who was suffering, and I could take all of that off and leave it in the hospital corridor, and just to go in with nothing in my hands and no agenda and to sit down in the chair like I had no where else in the world to be, and just open myself to the being that was there. And because of my Quaker belief that there is that God in every person, and that therefore people have within themselves what they need to be whole but they might need a little midwifery; they might need a little witness; they might need someone to create a container or to affirm their instincts where those instincts are intuitive rather than rational — that it might be a little something to do but basically it’s just an honor to be able to be present to people.
How Are Quakers Prepared for Death and Dying?
There are some aspects of death and dying that I think Quakers do very well, and one is that we tend to be able to prepare. We tend to be able to say, “this is what I want.” We tend to do a better job, I think, of recognizing when there is no real curative treatment and it’s time to opt for hospice, and to turn ourselves towards our dying and think about how we want to die well. When I joined hospice, we had a patient who wanted to stop eating and drinking. It’s called VSED, voluntary stopping of eating and drinking, and it was interesting to me that the hospice nurses considered it a truism; that people always throw that idea around but no one can do it. But I have known quite a few Quakers to have done it including Kenneth Boulding and Scott Nearing, who are well-known Quakers, but also Quakers in the Grass Valley Friends Meeting, and it’s regarded as a very holy thing and very respected, so there are things that I think Quakers can do very well in our dying and our deathways.
How Can Quakers Better Prepare for Death and Dying?
I think the first thing is for Quakers to talk about death and dying in the meeting and to talk about what we might want, and to just make it okay to talk about death and dying. You may have heard there’s a movement of “death cafés,” and I guess I would like to see Quakers do “death potlucks” where we would talk about our death and dying in an intergenerational way because if we can think about it and face it and talk about it and compare notes and answer queries like, “when has someone died in your life where you felt that there was beauty and connection in it?” and to tell those stories and to think about how we might do it differently. I don’t have all the answers and what’s right for the individual is very individual, but what I think happens is that we don’t think about it, we don’t talk about it, then we catch a diagnosis and it’s very hard and scary to think about and talk about.
One of the doctors I work with, a palliative care physician, is fond of saying, “It’s never been harder to die well than it is now,” because medicine has enough intervention that it can really cloud the question of, “Am I dying? Should I die at home? Should I have CPR? Should I be incubated?” whereas 100 years ago, for instance, people died. There wasn’t a lot to be done about it. They were cared for at home and it wasn’t as unclear, and we need to really look at that and see how we arrived where we are and how we might enrich our Quaker deathways.
Discussion Question:
- As Carl asks in the video, when has someone died in your life where you felt that there was beauty and connection in it?
- How does your community talk about death and dying?
The views expressed in this video are of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Friends Journal or its collaborators.
First, as a physician and as a Friend and as someone who has worked a fair amount with people who are dying, I very much like what Carl is saying about the processes of suffering and dying.
Further, I do a great deal of work with traumatized people, asylum seekers and refugees and war victims online in various parts of the world. Carl’s point at the beginning of the video about walking in without any preconceived ideas, and “simply” – it is not at all simple – listening to the people – there always also are relationships – is the essence of good therapy. I don’t know how many times people have said to me something like, “you’re the first person who has listened to me”. Listening and empathizing and being there is essential. This is the essence of our spiritual relationship to other people and to G-d.
As a retired healthcare chaplain in the UK, I would like to endorse all that Carl says in this video. Thank you Carl for all that you are doing.
May we all seek a holy death. May we strive to allow others to die well, and may we all know how much we are all loved and valued by God.
Working in a funeral home, I can affirm much of what you’ve said.
You seem to be a good chaplain.
Thank you, Carl. As a person who had a diagnosis take a nasty turn last November, I appreciate what you have observed and learned. I just finished my 3rd chemo regimen, which only has a 50% response rate. The first two regimens worked, but somewhat ineffectively. I have had to consider dying sooner than I expected. And you are correct about being a witness and a listener. I have found adages can make me angry. The words more typically used such as “battle” or “fight” don’t resonate with me. What does resonate is that I am on a Spiritual path – and that I can look at what is in front me, discern Spirit’s will as best I can, and then move forward. I can cultivate gratitude for small things, and I can belly laugh – not only at puns and well-designed comedic monologues – but at simple things that amuse me. In short, I fully live simultaneously as I acknowledge death. I can’t find words that adequately describe holding both of these in my hands at the same time. Someone to listen and witness when I need to gnash my teeth and pull out my imaginary hair – or belly laugh, or take a sharp inhale when something beautiful is seen, or cry out of the fullness and/or grief – that’s what I need the most. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Thank you, Carl, for this beautiful reflection on death and dying. I’m going to propose to our Meeting that we hold a ‘death potluck’!
Thank you Carl! Lots of great points and thank you for sharing your personal journey. I am not so sure Scott Nearing was a Quaker – similar life philosophy, but I have never seen anything that would say he was a Quaker.